Key.board.crazy

Standalone Thinkpad Keyboard Review

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:09:18 -0800

Model: SK-8855
Switch Type: Laptop-style scissor switch
Cost: $50 (from online Lenovo store)
Connector: USB

I've been interested in the Thinkpad-style standalone desktop keyboard for a while, so I jumped on this one as soon as I heard about it (and also found out that it was cheaper than the predecessor)

The Thinkpad Feel

One of the biggest draws of this keyboard is the fact that it supposedly recreates the famed Thinkpad keyfeel on your desktop. While many laptops in the past have offered scissor switches, many people still continue to to swear by those found on the Thinkpad series models.

Unfortunately, I have to say that this keyboard does not feel quite as good as the one on my ThinkpadT400. They clearly look the same and both use scissor switches, but this desktop model feels just a tad more mushy and less crisp. The keys feel stiffer and require more effort to actuate, which leads to fatigue. That being said, it's still a fairly pleasing experience, and it seems like I can type at full speed without any problems (according to typeracer.com).

Another difference is that because this keyboard is really just a thin piece that would normally sit on top of a laptop chassy, it feels flimsier than typing on a laptop (which makes sense, given that it is also much lighter). But this just added to my disappointing feeling in my head that kept saying "It's not the same!" It is surprisingly inflexible for how thin and light it is, but it does still feel "hollow" when compared to an actual laptop.

This keyboard also incorporates the latest improvements to the classic Thinkpad keyboard design, including the large escape key (YES!) and the larger delete key (meh, but OK). In general these improvements are both quite useful, and I look forward to the day when this design is standard across the entire Thinkpad line.

They also got rid of the touchpad in this particular model. Since I prefer touchpads over the trackpoints, I wasn't particularly happy about that, but since this is a model intended for desktop use, you can always just use your mouse.

For those Linux users among you: while the large escape key is a huge boon for those vi sessions, the trackpoint isn't particurlarly handled well on the latest distros (Ubuntu Jaunty for me), so don't expect it to be useful without a lot of tweakage. The volume keys work out of the box, but the Thinkvantage key and mic mute key (as well as a bunch of special Fn keys, as you would find on an actual Thinkpad laptop) do not work, so be warned. That may change in the future, once some Linux hackers get their hands on these things.

Comfort

Increasingly, the most important aspect of keyboards for me is becoming comfort (and that's also why I tend to revert to my MS Natural Elite after a few days of working on anything else).

In the comfort dimension, this keyboard is better than average. Because it is so light and thin, it's easy to put it on your lap as if it were a laptop, and this typing position is actually quite comfortable. You still get a slightly cramped feeling because it is the same width as a laptop, however, and the stiffness of the keys I mentioned earlier adds to fatigue.

In general, I am able to last longer on this keyboard, then say the Realforce 101, which has a more standard design. I plan to use this keyboard on and off (it is useful to have such a compact device which is also pretty portable), and hopefully the switches will wear in over time and not require so much force.

Recommendations

If you're really looking for the laptop keyboard feel, this keyboard is about as close as you'll get to the real thing. Those who like thinkpad keyboards probably won't be disappointed. Though, as I said, it doesn't feel exactly the same as the T400. It probably works a bit better under Windows, and best when it's actually hooked up to a Thinkpad, but I've got it hooked up to a Linux-based workstation, and I'm able to use the most important features.

Keyboards to try on a budget

Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:18:42 -0800

For those of you who are keyboard crazy like myself, you know that this hobby gets pretty damn expensive pretty damn fast.

So here's a list of inexpensive keyboards you can try, if you want to try some interesting keyboards on a budget.

Microsoft Natural Elite: This is the basic ergo keyboard from Microsoft. It's their classic design with some annoyances like the diamond arrow keys and the non-standard pg up/down block layout. You can also try the Ergo 4000, though I would recommend against it.

Keytronic keyboards: These guys are basic rubber dome boards, only slightly more expensive than your standard rubber dome board, but have a very distinct and good feel for a rubber dome board. Make sure you check out the specs and look for a keystroke life of 10 million strokes+, otherwise you're getting one of their cheap ones, which are the same as everyone else

Thinkpad keyboard: This is the keyboard from lenovo for folks who like the thinkpad keyboards and want one for their desk. There are two models, the big one with touchpad and numpad, and the new one without (and modified esc and delete keys). They have the classic Thinkpad look and feel.

Buy it on ebay or a shop that sells old parts. A lot of the older keyboards still use switches from ALPS and Cherry, and you can often find them extremely cheaply if you know where to look. You can try things out this way before you invest in that Filco, Topre, or unicomp

Thinkpad Keyboard arrives

Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:07:01 -0800

Hot on the heels of the new majestouch, I've now recieved the new Thinkpad standalone keyboard (model SK-8855). Typing this post with it now.

It's very light, and looks very much like what you would find in the laptop. I don't know how long the laptop keyboards are supposed to last but this one seems pretty comfortable so far. I know I can type on my t400 all day and pretty much feel ok, so here's to hoping that the desktop version will do just as well.

One funny initial observation is that it has all the standard laptop keys. Including brightness, battery, and screen magnifier. That seems kinda silly if you use it as a desktop keyboard, but I guess they expected people to use it as something hooked into a docking station.

Read more about the board here (Design Matters blog).

Majestouch arrives

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 23:02:48 -0800

Finally getting around to trying some new boards.

Next up is the brown-cherry, tenkeyless Filco Majestouch (FKBN87M/EB). Thanks to elitekeyboards.com, I got this board from a US retailer at a fairly decent price. They shipped pretty quickly, so I'm pretty happy with them.

Short version: Like that it has more keys than HHKB2. Like the key feel. For me Cherry MX Brown > Topre. Would still prefer sun layout and usb hub of HHKB2.

I got a chance to use the board at work for a few hours. Typed a 3000 word document with it.

Interestingly, hands don't hurt that much, even though it's not a ergo keyboard. Probably about the same amount of tension as I would get with the HHKB2, but I like the feel better than the HHKB2.

I can't seem to type on the Topre boards with out bottoming out on every key. Maybe the resistance is too light, or the "give" is too fast. On this board, I feel like I can type a little faster and not stress my fingers as much. It reminds me of the Kinesis countoured boards (as it should, same switch), which I also very much like.

The layout is also much more useful than the HHKB. Yes the HHKB is small, but the layout compression is over-doing it. Separate F-keys are still useful, as well as the most important arrow and page up/down blocks.

I've put a palm rest that I had from before in front of the board. Oddly though, it seems that the rest is too high.. elitekeyboards sells a FILCO-branded one that seems a bit lower, so perhaps I'll try that one.

Also ordered the new version of the thinkpad keyboard. You can read about that one here.

Now if only they made the majestouch in the Sun layout like the HHKB. And also with a USB 2.0 hub. Those are the only to places where I still like the HHKB2 over this board.

Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite discontinued?

Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:42:11 -0800

I can't find it listed on MS's hardware page anymore.. though it still appears on NewEgg and such.

Time to stock up? There's got to be something better out there.

Perhaps I'll switch to the desktop version of the Lenovo keyboards.

Update: It's back. Panic aborted.

PC watch special report on keyboards

Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:01:49 -0800

PC watch has a year end special report on high-end keyboards.

Kinesis Freestyle Review

Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:37:25 -0800

Model: KB700PB-us
Switch Type: Membrane
Cost: $145 with "VIP" Accessory Kit
Connector: USB

I actually ordered this one way back in February, then returned it after a week or so. I've been meaning to write down some notes about it so here it is.

Free as in style

As its name implies, there are lots of choices with this keyboard. The two halves are entirely disjoint and connected by a cable. As such, there are literally an infinite number of configurations you can try.

And that's sort of the problem.

Originally, I bought into the whole "to each his own" idea of ergonomics. Surely, each person was built differently, so there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to keyboard ergomonics right? You want the most flexible tool to find the optimum configuration right?

Well, yes and no. I found that with the Freestyle, I had too much freedom. There were so many positions you could try, and so little guidance on how to choose them. In some sense it returns the burden of designing an ergonomic layout back to the user. Sure my MS Natural might not be "perfect" for my body dimensions, but it seems definitely good enough. And certainly good enough that I don't want to spend hours and hours tweaking and second-guessing myself with a more flexible device.

Kinesis sells some accessories that make this problem slightly better. The "incline" and "ascent" mounts certainly reduce the variety of configurations that are possible with the two halves. Unfortunately, I went with the VIP, so now, not only did I have to think about how to position the two halves within the plane that is my desk surface, I had to worry about how much to slant each half in a vertical dimension as well.

As if all of this was frustrating enough, since each half is relatively light (it's just plastic), it's very easy to accidentally bump one and then lose the positioning that you had just spent so long to figure out. If, like me, your wrists are sensitive to even the slightest of adjustments, then this will drive you crazy. Of course, you could come up with all kinds of mechanisms to secure your layouts, but in the end, having to do this significantly diminishes the value of this keyboard.

If you think about how many people are having satisfactory experiences with something like the Kinesis Contoured keyboard, which gives you absolutely no flexibility in terms of positioning, it seems silly to spend so much time futzing around in an infinite configuration space.

Which accessory to buy?

Related to the above problem is the fact that there are four different accessories (as of this writing) that you can purchase with the Freestyle: the incline, VIP, V3, and ascent. How am I to know which one I really want? Do I buy them all and the return the ones I don't want? It's just too much hassle Kinesis. You guys are the ergonomics experts, so make a call, and tell me what I want. Give me a configuration space that is manageable, and once I find the optimum configuration, give me a way to replicate it or reproduce it easily.

Some good points

It's got no numpad. That's always good to see. In general, it's pretty compact.

I really like the switches that they use. They have a very nice tactile response, and are surprisingly light for a membrane switch.

It has some of the standard utility keys that you find on new keyboards. But no volume controls and no sleep button? Aren't those the ones that are used the most?

Other minor nits

There are quite a few little things about thie keyboard that bothered me as well.

The escape key is not above tilde. It's way off in it's own corner. Really annoying as a VI user.
Really small windows key. I've come to notice that the MS natural's are the only one that have an Alt key that extends all the way out so that it is under X and C, instead of Z and X on most keyboards. This makes it much easier to hit with your thumb when entering keyboard shortcuts.
Funny delete key. The Freestyle has a delete key that is as big as the backspace key, but slightly above it. I manage to hit the wrong key a frustratingly frequently. I'm used to searching for the delete key by feeling around for the separate 6-key block found on most keyboards.

Ergonomics

At the end of the day, you get an ergonomic keyboard because of, well, the ergonomics. If you read what I wrote above, you won't be surprised to hear that I never did end up finding a positioning that I was totally happy with. Perhaps I bought the wrong accessory. I will never know.

So in conclusion, while this keyboard seemed to have many things going for it, I rather quickly realized that I still preferred my trusty old MS natural elite. That, and for all it's flexibility, my wrists still ended up hurting after several hours. Perhaps YMMV, but it's not a winner for me.

Trial over

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:16:44 -0800

Well, I hate to say it, but I gave up.

It was going well for a good four days. But then I had a stress day at work. Lots of code to write, and not much time to think about hand position. Sure, I can type OK on the realforce when I'm just leisurely replying to my email, but come crunch time, all the "bad" habits come back, and I'm back to where I'm started: wrist pain.

Oh well. It was worth trying. And when it didn't hurt, it was a pleasurable experience. Maybe I just really have to give in and go with the kinesis now. It's the only real ergo keyboard with good switches, aside from the Cherry Ergo plus 5000 which is out of production and impossible to find.

Realforce trial update

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:06:46 -0800

Well it's been two days, and I'm doing a little bit better. I can now seem to type on the Realforce for a significantly longer time without having pains in my hands and wrists.

The main trick seems to be in the positioning of my floating hands over the keyboard. After using the MS natural for so long, it felt natural to position my hands such that the bottom of my palms were right above the wrist rest. When I do this I tend to strike a key with the flat part of my finger tip, and perform a "pulling" sort of action. Doing this however on the Realforce led to almost instant pain.. definitely shooting pains within 5 minutes.

Instead, now I move my hands forward a bit (so that the base of the palm is much more forward, and I type with the tips of my fingers. This simple change allows me to type for much longer. It's such a small change that it's mysterious that it would have such a noticeable effect.

That being said, I still don't feel at home. Part of the problem is that with my wrists floating in the air, my hands don't feel "rooted", and so I end up moving my hands to hit certain keys and that causes all the other keys to be in different relative positions. With the MS natural, I keep my hands down on the wrist rest, so every key is always typed the same way.

Plus it's tiring to hold your hands up. Do people really keep their hands in the air when they type? It's still hard for me the believe.

Trying the Realforce 101 again

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:12:13 -0800

Today, a friend of mine had a Goldtouch ergonomic keyboard on his desk, so I tried it out... and three seconds later my hands hurt. Why?! Am I just addicted to the MS natural in way that I can no longer overcome now? That can't be true.

Thinking back, I do remember a time when I had to get "used to" the MS Natural. There is something about it that is definitely different from normal keyboards, and perhaps it lets you get into a mode of typing that makes it hard to go back to any other kind of keyboard. Perhaps this is the physical version of vendor "lock-in", which we all know MS excels at.

In any case, I'm starting an experiment. I'm going to try to use the Realforce again as my primary keyboard. I'm going to try to use it for a week, so that I forcefully un-learn any bad habits that the MS natural might be encouraging. I figure a week should be enough time for my hands to re-learn how to type on a normal-ish keyboard. If, at the end of this week, my hands still hurt, then I will admit defeat and recognize my own keyboard lameness. And that will be the end of that.

HHKB Pro2 with cursor keys on the way?!

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:29:19 -0800

PC Watch claims that PFU is going to release a Japanese layout HHKB Pro2. Interestingly, this model will have cursor keys. Does this mean that they will release a US layout model with cursor keys as well?

The HHKB is the only non-ergo keyboard that I ever managed to use for a long time w/o hurting my hands. Something about it's compact size and the particular slant of the keys. I ended up not using it because of having to shift to hit arrow keys, but a model with dedicated arrow keys would definitely make me reconsider...

Updates

Sat, 01 Mar 2008 18:22:37 -0800

After playing with the Realforce 101, I finally realized that my poor typing habits cause my poor wrists to start hurting even with the best of the standard design keyboards. So I'm changing my focus mainly to ergonomic keyboards. While ergo keyboards typically don't have the fanciest key switches, they have widely varying designs which are worth exploring.

I actually purchased an old-style Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro off of ebay. Unfortunately, it wasn't as good as I expected. I didn't even notice that much improvement over the two MS Natural Elite's that I own, so I'm selling it off right away. I probably won't bother writing a review for it.

But next up is the much more interesting, Kinesis Freestyle. This is sort of a commercialization of what a lot of hobbyists have been trying to do: a physically split keyboard with a chord connecting the two halves. There are similar products, such as the Comfort Ergoflex, but the Kinesis is the first to come in at the $99 price mark. I've ordered one with the $40 VIP accessory which gives me wrist rests and a prop piece to raise up the inner sides of the halves to get an arrangement similar to what one finds on typical fixed split keyboards.

Topre Realforce 101 Review

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:11:43 -0800

Model: ML0100 Revision AB
Switch Type: Topre Capacitive switch
Cost: 19000 yen
Connector Type: PS/2

Topre is the OEM manufacturer for the HHKB Pro line, and they produce a series of their own keyboard models which are unfortunately only available in Japan. I've recently acquired their sole US layout model, the Realfoce 101.

Layout

The most unremarkable aspect of this keyboard is the layout. It is the standard 101 IBM layout. No windows keys, F keys in 4-key blocks, numpad, etc. If you were to take the Realforce branding off of it, you'd probably not be able to tell it apart from some other plain jane old 101 keyboard.

Other Observations

There's something odd about the printing on the keys of this keyboard. Something about the font, though I can't put my finger on it. The font looks decidedly "plainer" than every other keyboard I have seen. This only adds to this keyboard's "boring" look.

The chord for the keyboard comes out on the side, which is somewhat unusual. There's a small chord groove so that the bottom of the board can lie flush against the surface underneath it.

This keyboard is heavy. It's spec'ed at 1.4kg, and the weight is mostly in the base. It's heavy enough that you won't accidentally be sliding it around your work area.

Here's a shot from the side:

Key Feel

As the switches used in this keyboard are made by the same company as those used in the HHKB Pro 2, the feel of the switches are rather similar. The Realforce 101 implements a ergonomic design employed by some other keyboards in which the keys that are usually pressed with weaker fingers are fitted with less resistance springs. In the Realforce 101's case, I believe this means they use lighter springs for the keys that are pressed by the pinkies and ring fingers. The spec sheet claims that the peak activation force ranges from 35g to 55g depending on the key. The HHKB Pro 2 has 45g keys throughout.

As such, typing on the Realforce 101 definitely feels "ligher" than it doesn on the HHKB. In my review of the Keytronic that employed a similar weighting technique for membrane switches, I noted that the effect confused my hands as they would encounter keys with widely differing weights. I find this not to be the case with the Realforce 101. Probably because the feel and action of the keys is so much more consistent.
The Topre capacitive switches -- when compared to the Keytronic's membrane switches -- in general have a much softer and gradual "hump" to get over before the key resistance gives and your keypress is registered.

The thunk made by the key bottoming out is a bit higher pitched than that of the HHKB Pro 2. Perhaps this is due to different plastics used for the keycaps?

General thoughts

I wanted to try this keyboard because I didn't like the fact that the HHKB Pro 2's key set was so limited. This keyboard gives you the full 101-key layout with the good capacitive switches, an effective ergonomic varied weighting of keys, and a high quality, heavy, full n-key-rollover-supporting model.

A few downsides to note, however, is the fact that it's ps/2 only, and because of it's 101 layout, it doesn't have a windows key. Most all new keyboards are USB and 104 key, and some OS's like OSX even demand that you have three modifier keys, though you could probably get by if you're willing to map your caps lock key to a control key (something that I do all the time).

As my environments are usually not constrained for desk space, I'd probably pick this model over the HHKB Pro 2. Compared to the HHKB, there are a few features that I miss. One is the two step rear height adjustment. The Realforce only has one giant fold out leg, which make the keyboard a tad too slanted for my tastes.

That being said, if you need a USB keyboard, or you're really pressed for space, there's no reason to force yourself to get the Realforce over a HHKB. They're equally good keyboards, and it's really up to the situation you want to use them in.

I've been using the keyboard for a week or so now, and the one disappointment I've had is comfort. I've been using the MS Natural Elite for the past few months now, and going back to a non-ergo keyboard has seemingly inflamed my wrists more than I expected. It's odd, because I can type on the thinkpad for a long time, and I could also type on the HHKB Pro 2 for long periods without strain. It might be a matter of getting used to the lighter keys on this keyboard, or finding a better posture, but I still can't deny that I feel instantly comfortable on the MS Natural in a variety of postures. At some point, the greatest keyswitches in the world still don't matter if your wrists hurt.

Finally, I should note that I "feel" like I am making less typo's on the Realforce when compared to the HHKB. But in general, I think I make more mistakes than on the MS Natural. Interestingly, typingtest.com tells me otherwise. I clock in at about 92wpm/99 gross on the Realforce and about 87wpm/92 gross with the MS Natural.

Topre Realforce 101 arrives

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:11:58 -0800

My parents made it back from Japan and a few days ago, so they sent me the Realforce 101 that I had asked them to pick up. Got it today.

I've used it for a half a day at work now, so here are my initial impressions. A full review will follow later.

Keys are light. They are ever so slightly lighter than the HHKB Pro 2 that I have sitting right next to it. I have been using the MS Natural Elite for a while now so I wasn't used to the lightness when I switched back. But once I got the hang of this thing, it really feels like I can type with a lot less force. I also seem to make less mistakes than when I used the HHKB Pro2. Not sure why yet.
The base is really heavy. Surprisingly so. The spec sheet says its 1.4kg. That's like one of the smaller laptops. Maybe like a Macbook Air ;-)
The look is really boring. It's a very standard look with standard colors. No Windows keys.
Key feel is very similar to the HHKB Pro 2, except for the lightness as mentioned before. It also means that the keys don't feel like they push back as much after they've bottomed out. So far I think I prefer over the HHKB.
Having a full keyboard for me is definitely preferable to having the small layout of the HHKB Pro2. I use the Control+arrow key combinations all over the place to navigate big text fields.

That's all for now. I tried taking a crappy picture of it with my phone, but you can't see anything. So I'll bring in my point and shoot tomorrow so that I can get a better pic.

A comeback?

Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:37:53 -0800

Well, I've still been pretty happy with the MS Natural Elites. But I still have an appreciation for all the other cool models out there. So I'm planning on maybe acquiring a few more, just for the sake of collecting.

First target is the Topre Realforce 101. Topre the company in Japan which is original manufacturer of the famed Happy Hacker keyboards. The Realforce line is a separate line of some small and some full-sized keyboards with the capacitance based switch technology as the Happy Hacker Pro line. The 101 model is the sole English layout model. It has the standard 101-key layout (no windows key), and has a PS/2 connector. While pretty basic, my desktops still have PS/2 connectors, and there are plenty of PS/2 to USB connectors to choose from, so it should be able to live pretty long, in case I really like it. Since my main gripes about the HHKPro 2 was the lack of the full set of keys, this model might end up being a winner.